暗网禁区

聽 聽 On my recent walks around our area and in Lisbon, I noticed lots of civil construction work (mostly residential buildings) and I was shocked by the horrible quality. I have attached a picture that shows how badly done the brick work is. There is hardly any mortar between the bricks and all will be hidden by insulation (maybe) and render.
Are you building in Portugal and are you faced with similar issues on your construction site? Are the 10 or so building I observed this issue an exception or the rule?


聽 聽

聽 聽 -@TGCampo

I see no picture so will not comment.

Is you some sort of qualified structural engineer ?

@Tom,

If there's no concrete, how will the walls stand up? I don't know what you saw, where you saw it, what kind of buildings they were, what state the work was in, etc. In Lisbon, can you give me more details so I can get more information?

Unfortunately this website makes it very hard to attach a picture. Maybe there is a reason for it. Who knows.

@Strontium Sort of, yes.

Even if the picture changed the story, it would still be the story of one building.聽 If you're interested in the general case, I guess the answer would come mainly from the regulatory environment, particularly building inspection.聽 If there are standards, it's because someone is enforcing them.聽

聽 聽 Even if the picture changed the story, it would still be the story of one building.聽 If you're interested in the general case, I guess the answer would come mainly from the regulatory environment, particularly building inspection.聽 If there are standards, it's because someone is enforcing them.聽
聽 聽
聽 聽 -@donn25

Unfortunately, it is the story of every building I have seen under construction, except for one where I know that the client representative is on site every day.

I didn't say that the buildings are structurally unsafe. I said that the quality of the brick laying work I have seen is a disaster. Still, unfortunately it is not easy to upload a picture to this site.

I know what TGCampo means. I am spanish, my city of origin isn't exactly rich, and building/maintenance standards in Lisbon still felt lower than almost anything back home to me.

Also, a guy from Algarve I met a few years ago complained extensively about the low quality of insulation and wiring in his region too. It seems that's how things are in Portugal, generally.

@teodorofdezcorz I noticed this issue on a sunny day when I could see the sunlight through a yet un-rendered and un-insulated wall. Once the walls have been insulated (if so) and rendered the gaps are not visible anymore, but the quality of the masonry is still very bad. Maybe with a trusted construction manager on site this can be avoided, but maybe this is the standard in Portugal.

@TGCampo

How can you conclude that it's a standard? Are you aware of the generality of constructions in Portugal? Are you aware of what is happening in other European countries at this stage of construction? These constant negative generalisations on your part, on this and other subjects regarding this country where you still live for years, are ridiculous to say the least...!

@TGCampoHow can you conclude that it's a standard? Are you aware of the generality of constructions in Portugal? Are you aware of what is happening in other European countries at this stage of construction? These constant negative generalisations on your part, on this and other subjects regarding this country where you still live for years, are ridiculous to say the least...! -@JohnnyPT

Well, I only say what I see. And I don't say that it is the standard, but that it well may be. If you, as the expert in everything Portuguese, can provide me with what the actual, factual standard is, then I will happily accept this. What I have seen so far would suggest that the quality of masonry is very low.

Being realistic about a place is (in my opinion) better than being full of unwarranted praise, unless one gets paid for the latter.

Tom,

Throughout the three profiles you've created on this forum, you know very well that I don't give unwarranted praise, nor do I get paid for the latter. I find the approach you constantly take in your comments here regrettable. Being realistic, for you, what your eyes see is that only what is German and Austrian is great, well-made and flawless. Great for you. You as a product of the post-war economic recovery.

If I were you, I'd stay in Germany and not be around the world...

Johnny,

having lived around the world for over 30 years has never closed my eyes to the issues I see.. Maybe you are just too sensitive or protective of your home country, despite the realities surrounding you.

Bringing up such issues and wondering how other 暗网禁区s are dealing with them (e.g. construction quality) shouldn't be a problem. Even for a very sensitive person like yourself. For me it would be interesting to find out what other people think and how they have solved the problem.

Due to the geographic location and seismic activity, construction methodologies vary between northern and southern Europe. All can have quality issues, but living here I am am more focused on Portugal.

Overall it would be great to read from 暗网禁区s that have been building in Portugal and how they have (or not) overcome construction related issues by e.g. contractor selection, construction methodology, or enhanced supervision, or you name it.

It used to be different 30 or 40 years ago, when most workers were trained. I bought an older house and started a renovation project. Must say the house was built by the owner, a builder who simply built two external walls 4 inches apart, allowing for air flow, never had mold issues. The house is naturally cooler in summer and warmer in winter. Let's face it, we have 2 seasons, dry and hot / wet and cooler. On the coast mornings are a bit more foggy. Our weather is tropical, if you insulate extensively you just create a humid and unhealthy environment. Natural ventilation is key.聽 Now it is an A energy rating building. No need for AC.

If you're interested in thermal efficiency of cavity wall construction, this might be an interesting read:

An insulation that seems to be widely esteemed among the populace is the capoto, external insulation covered with various reinforcements and sealers.

It's my impression that plenty of older houses have mold problems.聽 You'll see them with windows and doors open on a winter day that's warmer -- warmer than usual, not really comfortably warm.聽 Of course some of the worst mold problems one sees in older houses for sale is probably due to a leaky roof.

Capoto works well with buildings made from block work or brick work where the walls are relatively flat.

The "traditional" build particularly in central Portugal is local field stone (literally stones from fields) piled up to form a wall with infill of mud/lime mortar, window and door openings have stone slab lintels.聽 Lime mortar absorbs and releases moisture so allows passage of moisture聽 from area of high humidity to area of low humidity ie from inside the house to outside. Unfortunately during "renervations" with modern materials like non porous paint, non porous render, or put a wardrobe against the wall this stops the wall working as intended.

@teodorofdezcorz

The Portuguese say that in the north of the country, the quality of construction is somewhat better. In Algarve, indeed, it is subpar: insulation is such that you can hear your neighbor fart, the tiles outside are frequently laid with a positive pitch or unevenly (so that puddles form), the switches are put in inconvenient or odd places, and so on. No wonder. Whenever you pass a construction site, you see workers ill-equipped: no tool belts, sandals (if not outright flip-flops) instead of proper boots, general mess on construction sites, etc. After noticing all these details, shoddy workmanship stops being surprising.聽 聽

I've lived in Portugal 3 years. My immigrant friends hired builders for large-scale reno projects. Everyone had MANY serious problems. Workers come & go at will, don't meet deadlines or listen to owners, argue, don't clean up, & leave things undone. Ubiquitous shoddy work. Job walk-offs, no apparent reason. Many trades don't require certificates or licenses. Masonry done without levels or lines, very sloppy. I do my own work.

I've lived in Portugal 3 years. My immigrant friends hired builders for large-scale reno projects. Everyone had MANY serious problems. Workers come & go at will, don't meet deadlines or listen to owners, argue, don't clean up, & leave things undone. Ubiquitous shoddy work. Job walk-offs, no apparent reason. Many trades don't require certificates or licenses. Masonry done without levels or lines, very sloppy. I do my own work. - @sempervaliant

Hi,

Would you post references for your accusations so I can verify if they are true or not please?

I've lived in Portugal 3 years. My immigrant friends hired builders for large-scale reno projects. Everyone had MANY serious problems. Workers come & go at will, don't meet deadlines or listen to owners, argue, don't clean up, & leave things undone. Ubiquitous shoddy work. Job walk-offs, no apparent reason. Many trades don't require certificates or licenses. Masonry done without levels or lines, very sloppy. I do my own work. - @sempervaliant

Hi,
Would you post references for your accusations so I can verify if they are true or not please? - @Strontium

I know that you only ask for references because you want to cast doubt on what the member had to say. A simple walk around Portuguese construction sites will convince everyone with eyes that construction quality is a serious problem. However, it is not limited to Portugal.

I've lived in Portugal 3 years. My immigrant friends hired builders for large-scale reno projects. Everyone had MANY serious problems. Workers come & go at will, don't meet deadlines or listen to owners, argue, don't clean up, & leave things undone. Ubiquitous shoddy work. Job walk-offs, no apparent reason. Many trades don't require certificates or licenses. Masonry done without levels or lines, very sloppy. I do my own work. - @sempervaliant

Hi,
Would you post references for your accusations so I can verify if they are true or not please? - @Strontium
I know that you only ask for references because you want to cast doubt on what the member had to say. A simple walk around Portuguese construction sites will convince everyone with eyes that construction quality is a serious problem. However, it is not limited to Portugal. - @TGCampo

If you can, if the project is manageable, I would suggest DIY,聽 with some help from your friends.聽 Checking out the property with a builder before buying is just common sense. Or do you still believe in realtors' fairy tales?

I've lived in Portugal 3 years. My immigrant friends hired builders for large-scale reno projects. Everyone had MANY serious problems. Workers come & go at will, don't meet deadlines or listen to owners, argue, don't clean up, & leave things undone. Ubiquitous shoddy work. Job walk-offs, no apparent reason. Many trades don't require certificates or licenses. Masonry done without levels or lines, very sloppy. I do my own work. - @sempervaliant

Hi,
Would you post references for your accusations so I can verify if they are true or not please? - @Strontium
I know that you only ask for references because you want to cast doubt on what the member had to say. A simple walk around Portuguese construction sites will convince everyone with eyes that construction quality is a serious problem. However, it is not limited to Portugal. - @TGCampo

I simply asked question to find useful informations like what issues and聽 basic building type, construction, area, age, and also where are the builders from, local, international, was the agreements done in Portuguese聽 etc.聽 Just having a rant does not really convey any truthful or useful information.

@sempervaliant

can we collaborate! I build too - and run teams. Maybe we can start a little subcontracting team for Portugal and do some quality renovations for the community! 鈾ワ笍